908 0r 902?

[RonSSS]

I'll take one apart this evening....watch me be wrong! ha!
Oh, and what does the date code look like?

Ron

[Sundown]

Hi fellas new guy here; love the message board.

Going by this objectively I have a graph at home that shows the 802 8G freq response to the very similar to the 902 w negligible Off axis spread in the upper freq. when I get home I'll post it.. Actually been a while since I last looked at it. Personally I don't the diaphragms in more recent models have any real difference. The old ones on the other hand is a rabbit hole one should be ready for a long free fall

Personally I like the 802 8G and that could be from my many years of guitar and using alnico pickups. Both are excellent drivers and one isn't really better than the other IMO . It's pretty much pick your poison.

[RonSSS]

Hi fellas new guy here; love the message board.

Going by this objectively I have a graph at home that shows the 802 8G freq response to the very similar to the 902 w negligible Off axis spread in the upper freq. when I get home I'll post it.. Actually been a while since I last looked at it. Personally I don't the diaphragms in more recent models have any real difference. The old ones on the other hand is a rabbit hole one should be ready for a long free fall

Personally I like the 802 8G and that could be from my many years of guitar and using alnico pickups. Both are excellent drivers and one isn't really better than the other IMO . It's pretty much pick your poison.

Welcome!
I agree, I don't think you can go wrong either way.
Ron

[bowtie427ss]

.BTW- I personally like the 802G's better with my lite Frams !! But the 902-8A originals sounds fabulous too.They are so close it could be a toss up.But in my experiments (blind) i picked the 802G's.. To each his own !

More isn't always better. In this case it may be that the HF extension of the 902 caused an imbalance in the system to your ear that is more accustomed to the signature of the 802G. I've seen people have this experience in other situations.

They are so close it could be a toss up

Absolutely concur.

It cannot be over emphasized that we're talking about very small differences here..

I also want to emphasize that i do not dislike the 802G or think it is a bad or flawed driver. In the simplest terms it is my opinion that the earlier style 802's with annular steel phase plugs(damped cover, no loading cap) are capable of the smoothest 500hz XO transition(for some listeners the midrange performance at XO is what makes or breaks a loudspeaker), and the 902 has the best HF extension and long term magnetic stability of the small format drivers. While it's still an excellent driver, the 802G's most outstanding characteristic among it's peers seems to be it's market value.

[Altec Best]

While it's still an excellent driver, the 802G's most outstanding characteristic among it's peers seems to be it's market value.

OK, but why do you think it has great market value over say the 902 ?

[Sundown]

OK, but why do you think it has great market value over say the 902 ?

I think the market value is higher solely because of the alnico magnet. I also believe more recent 802 8G's high freq is on par w the 902; objectively. I hate to open up an old can of worms but I believe due to different magnets the 802 has clean mids and a soft top end while the 902 has slight muddy mids and sparkle top end.

[bowtie427ss]

OK, but why do you think it has great market value over say the 902 ?

Simple, the Model 19. Not only is the 19 one of Altec's best, it is clearly one of the best loudspeakers ever made. Nearly 30 years after it's production ceased it still stands strong and proud in the modern audio world. The introduction of the model 19 was also the introduction of the 802-8G and the Tangerine phase plug to the consumer audio world. The advertising was heavy and extensive, and IMO the value of the 802G is a direct result of it's success.

Check this thread at AK, the model 19 is mentioned specifically more than any other loudspeaker. http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/sho...d.php?t=442520

The 19, and it's components still have a strong demand in the marketplace 30 years later. Talk about a success story. Often folks request the cabinet plans so they can DIY their own. New facsimile/repro cabinets selling on ebay. A milestone on the audio timeline, and an icon in the audio world. Model 19, along with it's value, and the value of it's components is here to stay.

I think the market value is higher solely because of the alnico magnet.

I don't know about "solely", but it is certainly an important piece of the pie.

[Altec Best]

I think the market value is higher solely because of the alnico magnet. I also believe more recent 802 8G's high freq is on par w the 902; objectively. I hate to open up an old can of worms but I believe due to different magnets the 802 has clean mids and a soft top end while the 902 has slight muddy mids and sparkle top end.

I can relate to this !

[voice of the theater]

It cannot be over emphasized that we're talking about very small differences here..

I also want to emphasize that i do not dislike the 802G or think it is a bad or flawed driver. In the simplest terms it is my opinion that the earlier style 802's with annular steel phase plugs(damped cover, no loading cap) are capable of the smoothest 500hz XO transition(for some listeners the midrange performance at XO is what makes or breaks a loudspeaker)......

What about with a 1200 hz crossover? Do you still prefer the older 802's in that instance or in your opinion does the 802-8G have just as smooth of a crossover transition at 1200 hz with the added advantage of better upper frequency response/tangerine phase plug?

[bowtie427ss]

What about with a 1200 hz crossover? Do you still prefer the older 802's in that instance or in your opinion does the 802-8G have just as smooth of a crossover transition at 1200 hz with the added advantage of better upper frequency response/tangerine phase plug?

Let's just say that i know a lot more now than i did when i first started buying 802G's and other Altec components.

Today i don't give them(802G) a 2nd look in most marketplaces as they simply command too much money with no significant attributes to justify it beyond them being the proper driver for certain "original" loads such as in a model 15 or 19. I would seek them for a proper restoration.

For a custom build with a projected XO below 1khz i'd most likely seek 802D or earlier. For a build with a projected XO above 1khz i'd be looking toward Altec/GPA 902's.

added advantage of better upper frequency response/tangerine phase plug?

I would need to see proof that the Tangerine is responsible for extended HF response before i consider that claim to be valid. Until proven differently, i view the tangerine for what it is/was, a cost cutting measure, very little more.

802G has an attribute that i believe is far more contributory to it's slightly unique sonic character than the tangerine, something you've not seen mentioned by the "experts" with their pretty charts and fancy graphs.

I'm referring of course to the magnetic circuit, specifically the "pot" or motor structure. Of all these drivers we're discussing, the 802G/808B is the only one that uses a ONE PIECE CASTING for the magnetic return structure(pot). Previous 802's are welded together from rolled steel pipe and plate, 902's have rolled steel front and back plates. Different alloys have different magnetic properties. Anything that changes the magnetic properties of a loudspeaker is likely to affect the loudspeaker's performance, no?

This MAJOR change in construction also took place in the 416 woofer and resulted in the 416B.

FWIW, 416-8C's were made in 2 versions, one used rolled steel back plate, one used a cast backplate. 515E's were also made in 2 versions, yep, one has a flat rolled steel backplate, the other a rounded cast backplate, they sound different from each other, and are usually valued differently in the marketplace. Yet, you will see no mention of these varying attributes from the "experts".

Remember, just because you read it on the internet doesn't make it true. Do your own research, make your own measurements, reach logical conclusions.

EDIT:Bill Eckle does indeed acknowledge "improved magnet structure" for both the 802G and 416B.

These "improved structures" are at least in part the one piece cast pots, and IMO are the single biggest contributor for any variation in sound from their predecessors.